#531 How Leaders Communicate So People Actually Act: Dr. Michael Gerharz in Conversation with Niels Brabandt
How Leaders Communicate So People Actually Act: Dr. Michael Gerharz in Conversation with Niels Brabandt
How Leaders Communicate So People Actually Act | Dr. Michael Gerharz and Niels Brabandt
In a leadership interview with Niels Brabandt, Dr. Michael Gerharz makes a point many executives understand intellectually but still underestimate in practice: communication does not succeed when people merely agree. Communication succeeds when people act.
That distinction matters. In boardrooms, town halls and change programmes, leaders often believe that a rational case is enough. A restructuring is necessary. An AI initiative is inevitable. A transformation programme is strategically sound. The slides make sense. The numbers add up. The logic is correct.
Yet after the meeting, too little changes. People nod, applaud, return to their teams and continue as before. This is the failure Dr. Michael Gerharz addressed in conversation with Niels Brabandt: the gap between understanding and action.
The leadership problem: logic creates agreement, not necessarily movement
Niels Brabandt opened the interview with a familiar leadership challenge: difficult change, a new AI project, a change programme or a restructuring. These are moments in which every word matters because leadership communication must do more than inform. It must help people understand, engage and act.
Dr. Michael Gerharz responded by challenging a common executive assumption. Leaders frequently believe that if something makes sense, people will do it. Yet, as he argued, human behaviour rarely works that way. People know many things that make sense. They know they should exercise more, eat better or make healthier choices. Knowledge alone does not create action.
The same is true in organisations. Employees may agree that a change programme is logical. They may even say so in the meeting. But if the change does not feel meaningful, relevant and right to them, it often remains theoretical.
From persuasion to resonance
One of the strongest insights from the conversation between Niels Brabandt and Dr. Michael Gerharz is the distinction between persuasion and resonance.
Persuasion, Dr. Gerharz explained, is often treated as the gold standard of communication because it promises power. It suggests that a leader can get people to do what the leader wants them to do. The problem is that most people do not want to be persuaded. They do not wake up hoping someone will arrive to overwrite their belief system.
Resonance works differently. Rather than asking, how do I make people accept my reason, it asks, where does what I want align with what they want? That shift is profound. It moves communication from pressure to shared interest, from performance to relevance, from command to common ground.
For decision-makers, this is not a semantic distinction. It is a strategic one. Persuasion can produce compliance. Resonance can produce commitment.
Why corporate language often fails
Niels Brabandt raised a problem many employees recognise immediately: the language of corporate change. Phrases such as change is inevitable, change is an opportunity or every change is a chance have become so overused that they often create distance rather than trust.
Dr. Michael Gerharz pointed to the deeper issue behind this reaction. People detect when language is cheap. Corporate language often sounds safe because it avoids commitment. It protects leaders from overpromising. It may even satisfy legal or internal communications teams. Yet it rarely gives employees something they can believe in.
Real leadership communication requires what Dr. Gerharz described as costly signals. A costly signal is a statement leaders can be held accountable for. It is not merely polished language. It reveals priority, conviction and risk. It tells people that the leader means what they say.
The Alcoa example: worker safety as a costly signal
To illustrate the point, Dr. Michael Gerharz referred to Alcoa in the 1980s, when Paul O'Neill became CEO. Rather than opening with the expected language of cost cutting, sales initiatives or innovation programmes, O'Neill focused on worker safety and the ambition of zero incidents.
That statement mattered because it was not a fashionable slogan. In an industrial environment involving heavy machinery, high temperatures and real danger, zero incidents was ambitious. It created accountability. It also connected the company's performance needs with something employees deeply cared about: their own safety and the safety of their colleagues.
Dr. Gerharz described this as a keystone habit. By focusing on safety, employees started paying attention to the smallest details in the production process. That attention then improved quality and operational discipline. The communication worked because it did not command people to care about abstract corporate metrics. It connected the change to something meaningful in their lived work.
Employees do not resist change as much as they resist unclear meaning
A key moment in the interview came when Niels Brabandt asked whether employees often resist not change itself, but unclear or poorly communicated meaning.
Dr. Michael Gerharz agreed with this direction. People may understand that something makes sense. They may even agree with the logic. Yet their central question remains personal and practical: what does this mean for me? How will it affect my work? Will it improve the way I experience my job, or will it simply ask me to do the old game slightly better?
This is where many leadership messages fail. They explain organisational necessity but not human relevance. They describe the business case but not the lived consequences. They show the path from strategy to metrics, but not the path from meaning to action.
The charisma trap
Niels Brabandt also challenged the idea that charismatic leaders can simply rely on their personal presence. Some leaders believe people follow them because they have the charisma to make others listen.
Dr. Michael Gerharz offered a nuanced response. If charisma is genuinely working in a specific company, leaders may not need to change what already works. The danger begins when leaders reach for charisma as a tool. Too often, charisma is misunderstood as performance, polish or an added layer of personality.
In Dr. Gerharz's view, the most charismatic people are often not charismatic because they perform. They are charismatic because they are present. They listen intently. They make other people feel seen and understood. That is a vital leadership lesson: charisma is not a substitute for listening. In many cases, listening is the foundation of what others experience as charisma.
Technical communication: making people want the information
The interview also addressed a common concern among leaders in technical, legal, pharmaceutical, engineering and mathematical environments: what if the topic is complex, highly specialised or apparently dull?
Dr. Michael Gerharz rejected the idea that the subject itself is necessarily boring. If a leader is passionate about a technical field, it is unlikely that nobody else could care about it. The issue usually begins when leaders strip out the human relevance. They present the technical architecture, the specialised vocabulary and the procedural detail before answering the one question that earns attention: why should this matter to the audience?
Once people have a reason to listen, they are often willing to follow a speaker deep into the technical detail. Without that reason, even accurate information becomes noise.
What leaders should take from the interview
The conversation between Niels Brabandt and Dr. Michael Gerharz offers a clear message for business decision-makers. Leadership communication is not the art of saying more. It is the discipline of making meaning clearer.
• Do not assume that logical agreement creates action.
• Replace persuasion with resonance by finding common ground between organisational goals and personal relevance.
• Avoid corporate language that sounds safe but carries no accountability.
• Use costly signals when change genuinely matters.
• Explain what the change means for people, not only what it means for the organisation.
• Treat charisma as presence and listening, not as performance.
• Make technical content relevant before making it detailed.
The executive conclusion
In this interview, Niels Brabandt and Dr. Michael Gerharz moved beyond the familiar advice that leaders should communicate more. The stronger argument is that leaders must communicate differently.
People do not act because a slide deck is logical. They act when meaning is clear, when trust is present, when leadership language carries accountability and when the proposed direction resonates with something they recognise as relevant to their work and future.
For executives, founders and senior leaders, the implication is direct: if your strategy is not being acted on, the problem may not be the strategy. The problem may be that people understand it without feeling why it matters.
Niels Brabandt is a leadership expert working in Professional Training, Speaking, Coaching, Consulting, Mentoring, Project and Interim Management. In this interview, he speaks with Dr. Michael Gerharz about communication, resonance and the leadership challenge of moving people from agreement to action.
Keywords:
Niels Brabandt, Dr. Michael Gerharz, Michael Gerharz, leadership communication, executive communication, change communication, communication that drives action, resonance in leadership, persuasion versus resonance, business communication, AI change communication, transformation leadership, leadership interview, leadership podcast, leadership videocast, Sustainable Leadership, executive presence, costly signals, corporate communication, strategy communication, technical communication, leadership communication skills
Niels Brabandt
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Mehr zu diesem Thema im dieswöchtigen Podcast und Videocast: mit Niels Brabandt: Videocast / Apple Podcasts / Spotify
Das Transkript zum Podcast und Videocast befindet sich unter diesem Artikel.
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Podcast and Videocast Transcript
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
The difficult change you have to communicate, or maybe the new AI project, or the next change program, or the next restructuring. You might know these moments where, you know, every word from here counts. And the question is, how can you communicate in a way that people actually act on what you say and actually convince them, actually work with them, that they actually want to do what you expect them to do?
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
And we have an expert on the matter with us here today. Hello and welcome, Dr. Michael Gerhards.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
Hi, great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
Thank you very much for taking the time, and we get straight into it. You probably know that when someone comes up with an exchange program, the usual reaction is not amazing, that's exactly what I was waiting for today. And many people say, look, from a leadership point of view, people see AI has to come, they need to see that. So I'm approaching this from a logical point of view, I'm going to be very convincing with a logical point of view. So I'm going to make them move from that point of view. So surprise, they're going to fail. So why do so many leaders actually create resistance even when they are logical in your opinion?
Dr. Michael Gerharz
Yeah, I mean, just think about yourself. How do you act when you know something just makes sense, like going to the gym, like eating more healthy, like choosing a salad over the French fries? Yeah, we know it makes sense. You got to change because your health will thank you for it. Yeah.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
And then on the other hand, think about like something that your whole body wants full steam, like something you wholeheartedly want to do. Like that not only makes sense, for example, yeah, not only makes sense, but also feels right. And I think that that's a dimension that we're often missing. Like, yeah, things make sense.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
And actually what fails often is, yeah, we get the not yet. People agree, like, yeah, it makes sense. In the meeting, everyone says, yeah, we should do that, we should do this. And you even get a round of applause. But yeah, it doesn't happen because we don't embrace it emotionally. We don't sense that it feels right.
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
So what do you think then is the real difference between— because often people say you have to persuade someone to do something. What, in your opinion, is the difference when you say on the one hand, you have persuasion, and maybe you have something like convincing or resonating with someone that it actually feels? What is the main difference? What do leaders do who actually resonate with people?
Dr. Michael Gerharz
I think it helps. First of all, it doesn't make sense, right? Persuasion is considered to be the gold standard of communication. That's what everyone wants. Because when you've got that skill, you've got power to get people to do what you want them to do.
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
Yeah, but I don't want to be persuaded. I'm not waiting I'm not waking up saying, hey, I have a belief system and I'm waiting for someone to show up to persuade me of anything else. That's not what I'm waiting for.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
Exactly. And that is exactly the problem. Like in that exact way of framing it, like I get you to do what I want you to do. Like I get you to do something that you originally didn't even want to do. Because if you did, like there's no need for persuasion. And resonance is different. Like resonance speaks to where in what I want is something that you want too.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
Like, it doesn't like try to give you my reason, that doesn't try to say you how I am right, but like tries to find where is the common ground here, where do what you want and I want align. And when I find this and when I speak to this, there's no need for persuasion. People will want to go that path because it's in their best interest. It's like this chocolate.
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
Yeah, exactly. So let's talk about in your best interest. Maybe you heard of the phrase when someone says, look, change is omnipresent, change is inevitable, and every change is a chance with something good. Change is opportunity. And immediately people say, look, this is exactly the mixture of corporate consultancy speak I am not waiting for to hear.
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
So how can leaders communicate necessary difficult change, but at the same time they do not want to sound either manipulative or fall back into the standard corporate talk that most people have. People have very fine feelings and very fine receptors for, oh, here we go for the corporate speak again, nothing ever changed for the better when I heard these words. So how can I communicate necessary, inevitable, important, and probably difficult change without falling into these kind of corporate speak?
Dr. Michael Gerharz
A couple of things here. I think it boils down to 3 things. Like the first is like in my PATH framework for, for how to communicate change in strategy, the H stands for heartfelt, which often surprises people. Like, because strategy is about the most rational thing that you get in business. But like, again, here, if people embrace it wholeheartedly, if what we align, what we want as a company aligns with what the people want personally, then that's a completely different conversation.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
And the second thing is like, is it something that I truly mean that people believe me, that they trust me to mean? Because that's what often happens. Like, I often like compare it like cheap talk with costly signals. Like, it's the— and the corporate version is often cheap to say. It's often what legal will recommend you say, like that you don't expose yourself you don't overcommit, like you don't promise something that's hard to keep. But the most successful changes that we've seen in business history, they are often costly signals. They cost you something to say. It means saying something that people can hold you accountable for.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
If you'd like, and if we've got time for that, there's actually a very brilliant example that I like to— Go for it.
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
Go for it.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
Yeah, it's from the '80s, actually. So little, but these principles are timeless in a way. Like it's from Alcoa. Who in the '80s, so one of the big aluminum producers and manufacturers in the world. And they were stumbling quite significantly in the '80s, which was when Paul O'Neill took the helm as CEO.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
And in his first press conference, something very remarkable happened. Like everyone was expecting the usual menu, like cost cutting, innovation initiative, like sales initiative, all the usual. Stuff. He did none of that. He made a very costly signal. He said, I want to speak to you about worker safety. And then he continued to say, I intend to go for zero incidents in any of our facilities.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
Like, zero incidents in an industry that is known for heavy machinery, super high temperatures, that's super dangerous, and no week would go by without an incident in any of their facilities. So, and what he realized was that this was like a keystone habit that they could establish, a frame that Charles Duhigg framed, and that I very much like.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
That what he actually needed was to improve quality in the production because that was one of the key reasons. But he knew exactly that I cannot command the workers down at the factory floor to just pay more attention to the little pieces, like to just make better work. So I need to find a way to compel them to pay attention to this that's in their best interest.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
So what happened was that they were paying attention to every tiniest detail that could cause an incident. And through this, it rippled down through the whole processes. And suddenly, they've established a way of working that was paying attention to the little things, not by commanding it, not through corporate speak, but by aligning it with something that mattered to the workers that needed to put it into work.
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
Excellent. So would you say that often employees or people who work in different places, they do not resist change, they resist either unclear or not even communicated meaning towards themselves.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
Yeah, because that circles back to where we started, right?
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
It makes sense, and I can follow you logically, and I can even agree with you, but the only thing that matters is what does that mean for me? How will that affect my job? Because there's 100 things that I can do and that I can do differently that all make sense.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
But what is something that actually improves the way that I experience my work? That's something that's actually gonna change the game rather than do the old game a little bit better, like something that pushes us forward. And that is something very different.
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
Excellent. Very good point made here. Thank you very much. What do you say to leaders who say, look, Michael, I know all of this and take care here, take care there. I'm a charismatic person. People just follow me. I have the charisma that people just like to listen to me and follow me afterwards. What would you say when someone just says, look, some people got it, some don't, and I got the charisma to make people follow?
Dr. Michael Gerharz
Yeah, if that's how your company rolls, then yeah, congratulations, I would say. Like, yeah, don't change a thing. Like, if you're so charismatic that you get people to just follow you, yeah. Go on.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
The trouble starts when you reach for charisma as the tool to do something because there's a lot of confusion about how charisma works. People think that charisma is some kind of performance, some kind of putting something on top of the way that you are when in truth, and you think about the most charismatic person that you've met in your personal life or in your business life, it's often not something really special about the way that they are as a person. It's much more like they show up, like they are much more present. They listen intently. And I think the one thing that they do differently is that they make you feel understood, seen and understood. Like this person, is something that I want to be around because he feels me or she feels me, makes me feel seen and understood.
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
Yeah, excellent. Of course, now I have to ask one question, especially with a German background. Let's talk about engineering. When someone says, look, I'm a leader in a tech field, we have very complicated language, it's very technical. For many people, it might be extremely boring. It might be extremely a bit dull as well, maybe. So how can I convince— no, How can I resonate with people when they maybe not even have my technical background, but I am relying on their commitment to get things done?
Dr. Michael Gerharz
I get that. And to be honest, that's not a particular problem of the tech field. I hear that basically from every industry, like law will say the same thing. Maths will say the same thing. Pharmaceutical companies will say the same things.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
It's just boring stuff. Like, yeah, but I don't believe you. Because like, first of all, it gets you out of bed every morning and you're passionate about it. And I find it highly unlikely to believe that you're the only person who could be passionate about this. Secondly, you're likely doing it to improve a certain aspect of some people's lives.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
And so I think that's the main issue here, that it becomes dull the moment that we strip that out of the presentation, like that we make it purely technical rather than first of all speaking to how does that affect people's lives. And as soon as we have like a reason to listen to you, we are willing to go through to quite some depth and follow you quite deep into the rabbit hole. But yeah, you need to first of all make me want that information. And I think that's what makes it dull because you skip over that step.
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
Yeah, excellent. And of course, one question I have to ask at the end of this interview, when people now say, hey, I think Michael could really help me with my presentation, with my skills here. How can people get in touch with you?
Dr. Michael Gerharz
The easiest way I can help you is through a Clarity Lab. That's a focused session. It's 3 to 4 hours. And it's Oftentimes all my clients need— I get mails from people 5, 6 years after relating their presentations back to that one session. Well, that's most effective when you have a moment coming up like an important presentation. We work on that, make sure that you know what to say, why that's the way to say it, why that resonates strongly with your audience. And yeah, it's going to change the way that you speak, act, and lead.
Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc
Brilliant. You see, when you find the right words and you know how to use them, you know, you now know who to ask. So at the end of the interview, there's only one thing left for me to say. Michael, thank you very much for your time.
Dr. Michael Gerharz
Thanks.