#589 Expect a Lot, Care a Lot: Why Only 7% of Leaders Get the Balance Right | Niels Brabandt

Expect a Lot, Care a Lot: Why Only 7% of Leaders Get the Balance Right

Many organisations have quietly lowered the bar. In business as in politics, leadership is often judged a success when it is merely not a disaster. This week I spoke with Victoria Roos Olsson, FranklinCovey leadership expert and co-author of Expect A Lot, Care A Lot: How 6 Critical Practices Create High-Performing Teams, who argues for the exact opposite. Her case is not built on opinion but on research and on years of work with leaders across many countries and industries.

The balance that makes the magic

Victoria Roos Olsson describes two familiar failure patterns. Some leaders start with very high expectations, go all in, discover it is not working and swing to the opposite extreme. Others slide back and forth, trying to find a workable middle. The research she and her co-authors draw on, backed by the FranklinCovey Research Institute, points to a different conclusion: the best leaders, the ones who drive the highest engagement and the best results, are brilliant at both. They hold very high expectations and they show very high care. In her words, these are not opposites.

Only 7% combine both

The most striking figure from our conversation: only about 7% of leaders currently combine high expectations with genuine care. The other 93% either care, expect a lot, do neither, or sit somewhere in between. For any organisation, that is a significant untapped resource. According to the research Victoria Roos Olsson cites, leaders who master both are three times more likely to have highly engaged teams and achieve six times better results than other leaders.

Taskmasters and pleasers both lose

Victoria Roos Olsson built the foundation of her career in hospitality, a sector known for high pressure, shift work and modest starting salaries, where high staff turnover is often accepted as normal. She does not accept that premise. Leaders with high expectations and no care, the taskmasters, get exactly what they train their people to give: the minimum. As she puts it, the way your people behave with you is how you have trained them to behave with you.

The opposite extreme fails as well. A leader who is lovely and caring but expects nothing leaves people asking why they are there at all. What talented people want is someone who sees their potential and helps them reach the next level. In any high-pressure job, finding that balance drives retention and engagement, and ultimately results.

Good cop, bad cop is not a leadership model

Many management teams split the roles: one person is the people pleaser, the other the hard charger. Victoria Roos Olsson calls this the good cop, bad cop philosophy and warns that it is risky. Every leader's behaviour shapes the culture. If people simply copy the behaviour of one of the two, that is what spreads through the organisation, and then you have a real problem.

Six practices you can apply tomorrow

The book is deliberately pragmatic rather than philosophical. It is built around six critical practices, and leaders can assess themselves against each one, identify where they are already strong and dive straight into the practice that challenges them most. That makes it usable from day one, not only after a months-long programme.

Three audiences, one responsibility

Asked who the book is for, Victoria Roos Olsson names three groups. Aspiring leaders, who want to prepare properly. Experienced leaders, who know both the rewarding and the frustrating sides of the role and want sharper tools. And leaders of leaders, who often underestimate that one of their most important jobs is leadership development itself. Once managers report to you, your task is no longer to coach them on the subject matter but on how to be great leaders.

What this means for decision-makers

For executives, the message is clear. Lowering expectations does not create loyalty, and care without standards does not create performance. The combination does. Ask yourself honestly where you stand on both dimensions, and whether your leadership team models the balance or splits it between two people.

Three questions help to start that conversation. First, do your people know exactly what excellent performance looks like in their role, and do you hold them to it? Second, do they experience your care as consistent and genuine, or only when results are good? Third, when you develop managers, do you coach them on leadership itself, or mainly on the content of their function? The answers rarely make comfortable reading, but they show precisely where the leverage lies. In my experience, organisations that work on both sides of this balance at the same time see the change first in engagement and then, with some delay, in their numbers.

You can connect with Victoria Roos Olsson on LinkedIn, where she shares leadership insights at least weekly, and find her and her co-authors through the FranklinCovey Speakers Bureau at franklincovey.com.

Niels Brabandt

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More on this topic in this week's videocast and podcast with Niels Brabandt: Videocast / Apple Podcasts / Spotify

For the videocast’s and podcast’s transcript, read below this article.

Is excellent leadership important to you?

Let's have a chat: NB@NB-Networks.com

Contact: Niels Brabandt on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nielsbrabandt

Website: www.NB-Networks.biz

Podcast and Videocast Transcript

Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc: Would you expect a lot when it comes to leadership? And usually people now say, well, as long as it's not too bad, I think I'm already quite cool. So the expectations got low in recent years. And now we have someone with us here who says the opposite should be the case when you want to have high performing teams. Expect a lot. And we're going to talk about it with an expert on the matter here today. Hello and welcome, Victoria Roos Olsson.

Victoria Roos Olsson: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Niels.

Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc: Thank you very much for taking the time. So you wrote a book among some very famous people, so really very well known. So expect a lot is probably something where people would say today, I do the exact opposite. When it's not horrible, I'm already very happy with leadership today. So what was your motivation to say at this point in time where people say from business to politics, when it's not horrible, I'm already pretty OK with it? How can you now say expect a lot?

Victoria Roos Olsson: Well, we say expect a lot and care a lot. And it's the balance that makes the magic. Because very often what we see in leadership, and to your point, is actually we have two parts. One is leadership. People, leaders who end up with high expectations and they go all in and then they're like, this is not working. And then they might go to the opposite. Right. And we also see others who are kind of sliding back and forth and trying to find a good balance. When we've seen through our research and our experience that the best leaders, the ones that drive not only the highest engagement but also get the best results, are actually brilliant at both. They're very high in expectations but also very high in care, and they're not opposites.

Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc: So the very important thing is everything you say is backed by research. It's not an opinion of a group of people, it is backed by research.

Victoria Roos Olsson: Right, right.

Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc: So I saw a percentage number in there, which says that we have quite some, let's put it in that way, potential, as you would say. Yes. What is the percentage of people who actually, let's say, combine both, high expectations and genuine care? What's the percentage number?

Victoria Roos Olsson: Right now, we're looking at the best top, but that's like 7%.

Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc: And that means 93% either care or expect a lot or neither?

Victoria Roos Olsson: Or neither. Or they slide in between or they're somewhere in the middle. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc: How did you measure that?

Victoria Roos Olsson: Oh, my goodness. We are. So, as you know, we're from FranklinCovey. So we're backed up by the FranklinCovey Research Institute.

Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc: More than 160 countries, I saw. More than 160 countries.

Victoria Roos Olsson: Oh, yes. Right, right. And I've worked in several of them, as a matter of fact. So we have our own institute of research and we also draw from different experts and we train thousands and thousands of leaders every year. So that also brings us great backup when we look in and do this. So yes, all scientifically done, and that's the wonderful thing of being in our position, that we have a field, because me and my co-authors, we spend most of our time out with leaders. So we know, we see, we hear about it, and then we can go out and test: is this scientifically backed or is it just, to your point, our feeling? Right. Yeah, yeah.

Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc: So which practice is it, when someone says, hey, I think I need to up my leadership game, what is it that someone could, let's say, do rather quickly, where they say this is something which I can get out of the book, where I read the book and after the book say, hey, it's not a four-month-long task list, or maybe in half a year you will see something. Is there something in the book where you say, I read it and can immediately put this into practice? Yes.

Victoria Roos Olsson: Yes, and that was the whole intention. We really wanted to make something not very philosophical, even though we have those conversations in there too, but something practical that you could bring in immediately. And it's built up around six critical practices. And I think only that on its own, you can almost look at it and say, am I really good in some of these? And maybe don't go there too much then, but also go and say, actually, am I, you know, this is something for me where I really want to go and work and challenge myself.

And you can go and dive straight in to that specific practice.

Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc: Excellent. So, I mean, I saw that you had a massive career also in the hospitality sector. You worked very well with well-known clients. Let's just say my impression from hospitality is it's high pressure. It's shift work. Usually people do not get rich when they start out. And for quite a number of positions, they probably remain not being rich. And at the same time, you say, expect a lot, care a lot. And people say, look, it's hospitality, high turnover is just normal and we just live with it.

Do you think this can be changed? Do you think that even in this sector, this is applicable, that you say this sector genuinely can and probably needs to change?

Victoria Roos Olsson: Yeah, almost certainly. And I think you can see when it's done well. I'm sure we can both look back to our careers and think about when we worked for leaders that were just high expectations, but no care. We call them taskmasters, right? They're going all in for that. And at the end, you're like, okay, that's, you know, fine, but I'll just also be here and then do whatever it is, like, the least I need to do, right? Because you, in a sense, and I always say this to leaders, you know, the way your people are behaving with you, that's how you trained them to behave with you.

Because people are smart and will adapt. And I'm sure, Niels, if you think back to all the different leaders that you had in your career, you didn't behave exactly the same way, because we adapt. Right? Right. Right. So, and I think that in hospitality, which to your point, is really where I grew up and had the foundation of my career, you immediately get punished, because if you just show up with expectations and no care, people will know that and they'll just give you the minimum.

Now, what you also don't want, and because it's easy, like, oh, OK, they care. If someone was just super high in caring, that's nice and lovely. But if there are no expectations, then you're like, well, why am I even here? Like, you might be super friendly and lovely and all of that, but I want someone that sees that I have the potential and wants to take me and help me to that next level. So in any high-pressure job, to find that balance, that is retention, but it will also help people wanting to be more engaged, which is exactly what the hospitality industry, but all industries really, need.

And then ultimately to get the higher results. You know, leaders, back to the research, with both are three times more likely to have highly engaged teams and will achieve six times better results than other leaders.

Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc: Yeah. What would you say if someone says, look, we have this management team and, you know, this one person is more caring and really the people pleaser, and this other guy or this other person is more the hard charger, and yeah, they work together. So one person is more the hard one, and often people say this even about themselves. They say, oh yeah, I am more the authoritarian person, but my colleague is super nice. So do you think this works when they try to split this up?

Victoria Roos Olsson: It's kind of like having the good cop, bad cop philosophy in a sense. Sure-ish, but ultimately, every leader, the way they show up is also creating the culture. So if you're actually showing them that it doesn't really matter, you could be one or the other. But the problem is then, what if people just pick up the behaviour of one of the leaders and that's what they bring forward to the organisation? Now you have a big problem. Yeah. So, no. Yeah.

Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc: Yeah, excellent. When we now talk about the book, because some people might say, hey, I look the book up, I see Victoria's career and everything, I'm not really the super manager career academic person. So often people, when I prepare for the interview, ask, what kind of read am I going to expect? Do I need to be a manager? Do I need to be an MD? Do I need to be an executive? Or is this something which I can also read when I'm just starting out right now?

Victoria Roos Olsson: So that's a really good question, and as any author will know, the first thing we try to do is to say, like, who's our audience, right, and who are we writing it for. And we had a big debate up front, the four authors, and we actually said we have a few different audiences that this book is really a great fit for. Even though we had the academia behind us and all of that, we really tried to make it very pragmatic. So there are things in there that you can go back and use tomorrow. I think the book is a great read for an aspiring leader. So someone who is like, I really want to be a leader.

What is it? How do I need to prepare? Usually they are really motivated anyway. I then think it's a great book, and even best for the one who is like, I'm in it and I've been at it for a few years, and there are some things about it that I really think are lovely and fun, and there are things that are so frustrating and so hard. And I think we've both been people leaders. It can be really challenging being a leader. And what they will get is like, oh yeah, look at me, I'm doing that right, that's good, but I never thought of it that way. All right, can I challenge? Okay, actually, could I set this up? Or, hmm. So they will get great, great tools. And the third audience, I'd say, are the leaders of leaders, because what they very often underestimate, so let's say hospitality, you took that as an example, but really pharmaceutical, what have you, any organisation, what we see is very often leaders at that level, they forget that one of their most important jobs is actually leadership development.

So they might be passionate about their hospitality or whatever, but they forget that now that I have leaders reporting into me, I don't really need to coach them on this subject, because they should already know that. I need to coach them on how they are being great leaders. And in that way, this book is brilliant, because it gives them that overall guide. And by the way, an opportunity to check in on the little things that they still need to work on, that we continuously need to work on.

Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc: Yeah. Excellent. Brilliant. Of course, one question I have to ask to wrap this interview up. When people say, hey, I buy the book, I read the book, and I think Victoria can really help us, either as a keynote speaker for our event or mentor to our executives or starting team or trainer, coach, wherever she can help. People, of course, will wonder, well, that's always my final question. How can people reach out to you?

Victoria Roos Olsson: So the best way to reach out to me is either via LinkedIn, so I have a pretty large, lovely group following there, so Victoria Roos Olsson on LinkedIn, where we post, or I post, at least weekly, little leadership nuggets, etc. So that's a great opportunity. Or check us out on franklincovey.com, so there you have the speaker bureau and you can really look into me and my three co-authors, who are all represented there. And we have kind of little different styles, which I think is really nice. And hopefully that also shows up in the book.

So you can pick the author that you think will have the biggest impact and connect best with your organisation.

Niels Brabandt EMBA MBA MSc: I think these are the perfect final words. So you see, you can expect a lot when you care a lot. I think these are the perfect final words. Victoria, thank you very much for your time.

Victoria Roos Olsson: Thank you so much, Niels, for having me.