#435 Coaching in Business: Why ROI and Leadership Demands Make It a Necessity, Not a Luxury - Greg Smith interviewed by Niels Brabandt
Coaching in Business: Why ROI and Leadership Demands Make It a Necessity, Not a Luxury
By Niels Brabandt
Coaching has become one of the most discussed and, at times, most misunderstood practices in modern business. For some executives, it is a strategic necessity. For others, it remains a “nice-to-have” add-on to more traditional leadership development. In a recent interview with Greg Smith, General Manager of FranklinCovey Executive Coaching, I explored why coaching has shifted from an optional perk to an organisational imperative.
Coaching as Strategy, Not Perk
“Coaching is not the Oprah Show: ‘you get a coach, you get a coach,’” Greg Smith told me. “It should be an organisational strategy.”
For Smith, the notion that coaching is a budgetary luxury is dangerously shortsighted. In today’s volatile and complex business environment, leadership agility is the differentiator. “If your leaders already have every capability to succeed under uncertainty, perhaps you don’t need coaching. But if they don’t, coaching is the most effective way to build those capabilities, real-time, contextualised, and embedded in their actual work.”
The data support his point. Research consistently shows coaching delivers the highest return on investment of any leadership development mechanism, regularly producing 700–800% ROI. Unlike sending leaders on a generic course or an executive MBA, coaching addresses the immediate realities of their roles and extends benefits beyond the individual to their teams and the broader culture.
Time, Risk, and the Cost of Delay
Executives often claim they simply “don’t have time” for coaching. Smith counters that with a hard truth: the risks of waiting are far greater. He cited a UK case in which a CFO was promoted during a transition from a private to a public listing. The company planned to start coaching after the public offering. “You’re missing all the risks,” Smith warned. “If you don’t support that leader during transition, by the time you realise the gaps, it may be too late.”
Coaching, he argues, is not an insurance policy; it is a “success assurance policy.”
Separating Real Coaches from Pretenders
One of the biggest challenges is the unregulated nature of the marketplace. “Everybody I know is a coach,” Smith observed wryly. “But unlike dentists or lawyers, the title ‘coach’ is unprotected. Anyone can build a website in 15 minutes and claim expertise.”
The result: inconsistent outcomes. Only about 50% of so-called coaching engagements actually achieve meaningful results. Smith urges organisations to demand evidence: professional training, accreditation with recognised bodies such as the International Coach Federation (ICF), and a transparent methodology.
“You need to know when a coach is really coaching versus when they’re just advising, mentoring, or, worse, improvising,” he said. Effective coaches should also recognise the limits of their role. Coaching is not therapy. “If someone feels the need to meet their coach every week, that’s a red flag. Coaching must remain focused, structured, and linked to organisational goals.”
The Fit Factor
Even with expertise, personal chemistry matters. Smith advises organisations to let executives interview multiple coaches before choosing one. “Agency matters,” he explained. “When leaders choose their coach, buy-in is higher, trust builds faster, and the coaching is more effective.” Mismatches can happen, but with transparency, they can be corrected early.
Coaching Under Pressure: Real-World Turnarounds
Smith has seen firsthand how coaching can transform even the most resistant executives. At a global law firm, a senior partner generated record revenues but created what colleagues described as a “hostile work environment.” Leadership doubted change was possible. Yet within months of coaching, the partner became aware of her blind spots, recognised the damage she had caused, and began to shift her behaviour.
“A year later,” Smith recalled, “the president of the firm told me it went from the worst waste of money to the best investment they had ever made. She was still the top performer, but now she was bringing people with her instead of leaving bodies in her wake.”
The Future of Coaching
As workforces disperse, generative AI reshapes industries, and leadership demands accelerate, coaching will become increasingly essential. Traditional development models, week-long courses, and generic seminars cannot keep pace. “Leadership is changing at an astronomical rate,” Smith said. “Learning must be embedded in daily work, delivered in small, agile, and contextualised ways. Otherwise, it’s forgotten within 24 hours.”
Where to Begin
For those considering coaching, FranklinCovey offers resources at franklincovey.com/coaching. Smith himself is accessible on LinkedIn. His advice: do the due diligence, demand credentials, test for a good fit, and be clear about objectives. Coaching is not about perks—it is about performance, resilience, and strategic execution.
Greg Smith’s message is clear: coaching is no longer optional. It is the highest-yield investment organisations can make in leadership, culture, and future success. And as I, Niels Brabandt, have argued in my own work on leadership and organisational change, the cost of neglecting leadership development is always higher than the price of investing in it.
Niels Brabandt
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More on this topic in this week's videocast and podcast with Niels Brabandt: Videocast / Apple Podcasts / Spotify
For the videocast’s and podcast’s transcript, read below this article.
Is excellent leadership important to you?
Let's have a chat: NB@NB-Networks.com
Contact: Niels Brabandt on LinkedIn
Website: www.NB-Networks.biz
Niels Brabandt is an expert in sustainable leadership with more than 20 years of experience in practice and science.
Niels Brabandt: Professional Training, Speaking, Coaching, Consulting, Mentoring, Project & Interim Management. Event host, MC, moderator.
Podcast Transcript
Niels Brabandt
Coaching, coaching and more. You probably heard about that. Some people have coaches and the question is, do you need coaches?
It's just a trend. Is it a hype? Do companies need coaches? What could possibly go right or wrong with coaching? And I have the expert on the matter right here.
Hello and welcome. Greg Smith.
Greg Smith
Hey, good afternoon, how are you? It's great to be here.
Niels Brabandt
Yeah, thank you very much for taking the time. I mean, as the chairman, as the executive at Franklin Covey, executive coaching, you know a lot about coaching and you probably heard one phrase which I'm going to give you as well. Yeah, coaching is really important. We don't have the budget for it. I'm sorry, it's a B priority. When we have a bit more money, we will have it. But when we are a bit up in the revenue, not right now.
What is your take on that? When companies basically say coaching is a nicety, a nice to have aspect, but not a necessity, what is your take on that?
Greg Smith
Yeah, Neil, that tells me the organisations are not looking at their situation through a realistic lens. How can you not afford to tend to it now? If you have all of your leaders have the capabilities they need to execute effectively right now, given the paramount volatility, change, uncertainty, complexity, then great. Maybe you don't need coaching and I would argue you don't need coaching. You need leaders with these enhanced capabilities to be adaptive and responsive and agile right now. And if they've got it, great. If they don't, we know coaching is the most effective mechanism at helping create that live real time, contextualised.
Niels Brabandt
What is when someone says, okay, maybe we think about coaching, but we give it to people who really deserve it. So when they excel, it's like it's a bit of a bonus, bit of a perk. Do you think that's a good approach?
Greg Smith
I struggle with that one, Niels. It's not a perk, it's not a bonus. This isn't the Oprah Show. You get a coach, you get a coach, you get a coach.
Niels Brabandt
Right, Good point.
Greg Smith
This should be an organisational strategy. I need to invest in my lead leaders who are most critical to our success at execution. And I need to support leaders who are my high potentials, validly identified as high potentials for growth into more critical, complex and strategic roles.
Niels Brabandt
When you now hear something that people say, okay, look, we thought about coaching, but I just don't think it works. I had a bad experience here and I heard of someone who also said they had a bad coach, so I need to justify all my Spending when I'm in the HR or people development or how you want to call it. Today I'm the head of people, I have to justify every single penny and I'm not sure if coaching actually works.
So does it work?
Greg Smith
I would say broaden your research. I'm happy to supply you with lots of it. Repeatedly, coaching is the highest ROI from leadership development or talent development mechanisms, assets, learning, regularly achieving between 700 and 800% ROI on every dollar you spend on coaching compared to sending someone off for an executive mba, sending them to a weekend workshop or certificate or putting them in, you know, with all due respect to all training and, you know, other assets and learning, it is proven time and time again the most effective at increasing leadership capability. Live real time to the exact business context of your leader, helping them increase their decision making, the speed of decision making and it, and it extends beyond just the impact on Neil's, it's Neil's team and the broader culture. So you get a multiplicative effect in lifting that one leader.
Niels Brabandt
Yeah, and this is all proven by science. And besides that, I, I also just, just a couple of years ago wrote my master's thesis on that. So, so, so I know about the science, it's proven by science. But of course, now here comes the ultimate point where they say, I see your point, we might need it and I think we have the budget but we're so busy we just don't have the time for it.
Greg Smith
Yeah, if you don't have the time for it, now will. When will you. And I like to think oftentimes not an insurance policy. Insurance policies pay out when things go wrong. I think of coaching oftentimes as a success assurance policy. If I hire a new executive or promote a new executive into a new role, we know the regular pitfalls that cause them to sub optimise or outright fail every time. Shame on us.
We are culpable if we don't attach to that leader, help them navigate all that change all that new, all that uncertainty to a fully contributing, fully capable state. Coaching can do that. So if you don't have time now, I would challenge you to think about what are the risks and not supporting that leader at this given stage or the leaders at this current time. One, one specific example out of the UK was a client who was promoting a new CFO from Director of Finance to CFO at a time when they were going private in the UK to go public in the us. Oh, leader up. But we will do it after we go public, after he gets through and I just screamed. You're missing all the risks.
You're missing all the risks. I just had an article published in Fast Company last month around this. What are the four identifiable manageable risks to manage during executive transition? And it was just screamingly an oversight on their part to if. If you don't support this leader now, you will have missed it by the time he gets you going public in the States.
Niels Brabandt
And of course, the cost of that will be multiple times with reputation risk, with anything that can happen in public, with anything that goes wrong.
Greg Smith
Yes.
Niels Brabandt
Now, of course, another question. When people say, yeah, okay, so we see the point, but there are so many coaches out there, we are just so on because anyone can call themselves coach. When you want to be a dentist, there are very strict rules about when you can call yourself a dentist. When you want to be a lawyer, there are very strict rules from which point. Exactly. You can call yourself a lawyer, a coach. You can say, I'm a coach.
Here's my website. I do that with one of these automatic systems AI generated within 15 minutes. You have a coaching business set up.
Greg Smith
Yes.
Niels Brabandt
So how do I find out if the coach is right for the person that needs to be coached?
Greg Smith
Yes. Niels, you're speaking to my heart and my passions here because everybody I know is a coach.
Niels Brabandt
Yeah.
Greg Smith
Oh, I'm a coach, too.
Niels Brabandt
You tell them what you do.
Greg Smith
Oh, I'm a coach.
Niels Brabandt
In about a month, we're going to have probably next month we have about 300 million NFL coaches. I think when the season picks up and anyone knows how to do it better.
Greg Smith
Wow, what a beautiful analogy. You're right. Everybody's going to be that Monday morning coach.
Niels Brabandt
Yes.
Greg Smith
After watching, you know, and I've got Monday morning coach. Yes, yes, exactly right. So my guidance to anyone listening, thinking about getting a coach for themselves, their organisation is, in your research, find coaches who are, you can see documented, they've been through professional coach training. Ideally, they are also an accredited coach. You know, whether that's in the us, you know, there's a global icf, International Coach Federation. That's a pretty universal standard. And there are some others in Europe and the UK and some in Asia Pacific that are more region specific.
But I want to see you've been through coach training and you as an executive, as a professional, know the difference between when I'm coaching an executive or I'm consulting or I'm advising or I'm mentoring or Neil's. And with all due respect, I'm a recovering HR person myself in a previous life it's not that typical HR or talent person who says oh, I've been coaching my entire career, yeah, a lot of valuable things. But you've probably not been coaching as defined by the, you know, the definitions of any of those accrediting bodies. And here's the challenge when you mentioned it doesn't work. They're not wrong if they challenge that. Oh, I've had too many bad experiences. When you look broadly at the industry, only about 50% of coaching air quotes coaching that occurs achieves a result and it's because it's the wild wild west with a, you know, a US based term here everybody thinks they're a coach.
There's no alignment to are you trained, are you a crazy credited what's your coaching methodology? So find someone trained, certified, qualified and understand their methodology and then kind of the last we always do this is where is if I'm going to coach Greg, how do I coach Greg on something that's not just his agenda? How do I know it's important for Franklin Covey strategies Greg's role in the organisation and then overlap with Greg's strengths, his development opportunities, his wiring, his tendencies. So I'm bringing those three truth points together, if you will and coaching him on something that is relevant to what the organisation needs.
Niels Brabandt
Excellent. But when people now say look there, there are so many people. I just give you an example. I saw on Facebook another ad which of course gets targeted due to the industry I work in. Someone says life coaching certification for $19 when you click on it, it's an online class for three hours the duration. So what to do with that? What are these certifications worth?
Probably not much. But how do I know when someone says I'm a certified coach, which a non protected term or they have a weekend class which they took somewhere and they basically got the certificate. Why? Because they paid the fee.
Greg Smith
Yes, yes. And again I see that frequently and I have them calling us all the time that want to coach for us and I'm a certified coach or I'm a certified such and such executive coach, you know, are there, are there a certified coach given specific instruments we use in coaching or in talent development? And so if I'm certified to be fill in the blank assessment coach, that's great. You're a certified feedback provider supporting development and growth with that instrument or that tool. That does not equate you to I'm a coach or I'm an executive coach. So again my guidance would be do a little bit of research to see if Neil says He's a coach. Where did he attend training?
Is it an ICF or other accredited training programme that is holistic, requiring 100 plus hours of at a training on that?
Niels Brabandt
Yeah, so.
Greg Smith
Yes, exactly. Right. And then, you know, get in to interview your coach. Don't just take them at face value or, or LinkedIn face value. Talk to me a little bit about your coaching experience. Where you've been particularly successful, where it's been more challenging. What kind of leaders and executives have you coached?
What's your area of passion or strength? What's your methodology?
How would you work with me? Don't just tell me you're going to coach me, tell me more.
Niels Brabandt
Yeah.
Greg Smith
So do your diligence.
Niels Brabandt
Yeah, excellent. And do you now think, let's say they do this one to one and they meet and then someone gets back to you and say, I think the coach is really good and it's just, it just doesn't click for me with that person. Do you think that is a viable rejection of someone? When someone says, I think great experience, I think great expertise, I think we're very well qualified, but it just doesn't work for whatever reason. Do you think that that's a valid statement to say?
Greg Smith
I think it can be Niels. And so again, my approach, my recommendation would always.
Niels Brabandt
I fully agree, by the way. Yeah.
Greg Smith
Intermediate interview two or three coaches before you choose one. For our client organisations who are, you know, procuring coaches for a certain leader, we want to provide bios of two or three coaches and encourage them to interview two or three. You have agency in this, you choose. Just like if, if I get to hire my own employee versus someone assigns my employee to me, I've got accountability, I've got buy in, I have agency in this. I've made a choice. So we see a much higher. I got to choose my coach.
I got a feel for how Neil's is going to work with me and we fit and we align and I feel like I can trust him. And it will take time. Even when we take an informed approach, single digit percentage of the time, two or three meetings in, we may get a call and says it's just not the right fit.
Can I change coaches? Of course. We're making a huge investment. You've got to have that comfort, that psychological safety, that trust. Because if I can't be open and transparent, vulnerable with my coach, we're not going to go anywhere.
Niels Brabandt
Absolutely. When people now open up, there is a certain limit. Probably, let's say when someone says I have issues here, I Have issues there. Where do you think coaches can still help? And where should coaches, for example, say stop? That is basically not coaching, that is therapy. What you're asking for, how do you use.
Because you know, these kind of coaches who tell you, I can help on absolutely anything and that, of course, is not a viable option. And that's, by the way, not only unprofessional, unethical, it's straightforward, dangerous for these people. People. But how to spot that? How do I spot that limit?
Greg Smith
Wow, that's really good news. So, again, my. My opinion and our methodology would be anytime we kick off a coaching engagement, if we're coaching Neil, we're going to meet with Neil's, his boss and your HR or talent partner so we can get alignment on what are the objectives? We have our true north. What does success look like? What are we working on? What are our objectives of our coaching journey together?
We know that's organizationally relevant and we know that's what's most important for Neil's and his success and the organization's impact. And we know it's not going to vary off into, you know, psychological or mental health issues if and when that comes up. Again, a trained coach has been trained when to identify we're getting off into things that are mental health issues. And I call timeout, you know, even as simple as, can I meet with my coach every week? That's therapy. No, every two weeks is about the right cadence because you need time to go practise new behaviours. And if I'm feeling I need to meet with my coach every week, you're creating some unhealthy codependency or you're perceiving this as a different kind of engagement and intervention versus coaching.
Niels Brabandt
Yeah, excellent. So when you now look into the future, because it's going to be a crowded marketplace, more and more people try to join, most of them, of course, not very successful, leaving the market after a couple of months and then others show up. What, in your opinion, especially when it comes to leadership development, is, is the future in this fast changing world of coaching as we see it right now?
Greg Smith
Well, you know, to say we are being profoundly impacted by the volume of change and uncertainty and interdependence on all the macro and socioeconomic and political factors is a profound understatement. Dispersed workforces, generative AI, all those things are disrupting, but also shaping where we're going.
And a couple things. One is that means the leaders need to be more agile across a number of capabilities and factors and resilience more so than we've ever seen before. What's required of leaders to be successful is accelerating at an astronomical pace. So being able to keep up with those is going to take more than just our standard programmes. The, the profession and the role of a leader is changing at such a pace that the industry of leadership development and training and coaching has got to likewise pivot and move with it. Everything we do as a learning and development industry has to be embedded in the way people work and learn every day. Small bites. Right. Niels is going to go take off and attend a week long course when that's not going to happen. And oh, by the way, by the time he finishes that course, what's happened in back in his real job, that shifted what he really needs to focus on or I'm going to send Neil off for this, you know, executive MBA that's good and great, but that's going to be a generic leadership event versus what's very unique and focused on you and your needs and contextualised to your organisation.
So it's got to be embedded in the way we learn and grow. It's got to be super agile to flex. So whatever we're training folks on is bite size just in time and reinforced in a way that it encourages and holds you accountable for applying new skills back real time. Or it's just I learned something and then the old Ebbinghauser curve, I forget 90% of it in 24 hours. Right?
Niels Brabandt
Yeah.
Greg Smith
Excellent.
Niels Brabandt
So of course now people often wonder with the experience you have and let's, let's face it, Franklin Covey is a world brand and anyone knows that brand. If you haven't heard of that brand, you haven't been in the industry. Very simple. So what are the impacts you have seen? Because I think that's something which is extremely interesting for many. What are the impacts you have seen? Executives who are, let's face it, they are not short of confidence, they do not fall short of strong opinions and they're not sitting there and saying, I'm an open book ready to change any time.
They probably, especially on executive level, say, look, I'm in this industry for 20 years, I worked my way up, I know how the game goes. So you try to change me. I wish you good luck from here.
Greg Smith
Yes.
Niels Brabandt
What are the impacts you have seen with coaching in the real world? Are you allowed to give us a couple of examples here?
Greg Smith
I can, yeah, I absolutely to come to mind and, you know, leave names and organisations out, but one is an example of a massive Global law firm got a conversation because they've been referred to us by another law firm. We tend to coach a number of attorneys who are trained to argue, to be right. Right, to be very opinionated, to be strong, to lead with the fist. But I got a call, they've been referred to us and the president of this law firm said, I've got one of my senior partners, brings in the most revenue of any other partner in the organisation, but she is literally leaving dead bodies in the wake. She is virtually creating a hostile work environment around her.
Can you help? You know, and I said, you're the attorney, so I'm going to give you all the legal footnotes here. Right?
Niels Brabandt
Yeah.
Greg Smith
Number one, it was creating a hostile work environment. That's a whole other issue. Is it, Is it that or is it she's creating, she's ruffling a lot of feathers and you're generally trying to help her. Second would be, is don't expect change. This person has been highly successful for a very long time in their career and this is one of those executives behaving badly. Yeah, those are very tough turnarounds, if they are ever effective. There are very few that are.
This one was an interesting one because this, this leader, this, this partner was absolutely unaware. No one had ever really given her feedback about how she was showing up to others. So I said, I want to help you recognise that. I want to limit your expectations of what may or may not occur. It's highly dependent on her and you giving her a hard message of like, you must change. Or in short, the coaching with her, like, immediately started, like, let's do something very short just to see if she will lean in. Very quickly she leaned in her eyes, we raised her self awareness, we opened her eyes to the blind spot.
She had no clue. That kind of the key thing, how are you showing up to others? How do you think you are? She thought she was fantastic because she's bringing in all the revenue. When she learned, it was like, oh my gosh, like broken heart. I had no idea I was upsetting people. I had no idea people had such a negative, horrible, terrible opinion of me.
And over the course of six months, she began to change. Over the course of a year, massive turnaround. And it was so gratifying for the President to call and go, greg, I thought I was. This was the worst waste of money I'd ever spent. Worst, the best investment I ever made because she's my highest performing and now she's performing even higher and she's bringing people along with her now, rather than turning them over and leaving dead bodies in the wake.
Niels Brabandt
Yeah. Excellent. So when people now think I think this might be for me. And there might be two kinds of people who now think of you. Number one are the people who think, how can I become a coach? And I mean a really good qualified one. And the other person might be the person who thinks I think I need coaching and how can I get in touch with Greg?
So how can I get in touch with you, your brand, your organisation?
Greg Smith
Yeah. Oh, thank you for that. You can connect with me anytime, directly on LinkedIn. Greg Smith, you know, Franklin Covey should pull me up. There's probably a few Greg Smith, the other would be go to franklincovey.com we have a tremendous amount of assets, learning, point of view, documents, you know, self serve, I don't know, value pieces for you. If you specifically want to learn more about our executive coaching, franklincovy.com coaching and you'll see the whole suite of a range of coaching solutions. I'm happy to chat.
Our team is happy to chat anytime and help you explore whether you want to become a coach and what's that path look like or if you'd like to explore coaching for yourself or your organisation.
Niels Brabandt
Perfect. These are the final words we see. There are scientific evidence to coaching and has a massive value. Add the highest ROI on every dollar spent, every kind of currency spend when you want to develop your leaders. At the end of this podcast, there's only one thing left for me to say. Greg, thank you very much for your time. Thank you.
Greg Smith
Thank you. My pleasure. What a treat. Thanks so.